Heh. And not too inaccurate:
I'm often amused at the naiveté of some Catholics who think reconciliation with 'Orthodox Christians' is just a day away. Not quite. When Catholicism eliminates Papal infallibility, and the Catholic Church grovels and begs forgiveness for it's persecution of Orthodox Christians', then maybe. Not until then. Nowhere near until then.
Yes, but this doesn't tell me what Presbyterians think of Catholics, or what the Eastern Orthodox think of Presbyterians. I guess I'll never know. ;)
ReplyDeleteThe relations of Presbyterians to Baptists and Baptists to Catholics are sadly pretty accurate in my experience as one who grew up Baptist and is now Presbyterian. I am always convicted by C.S. Lewis' admonition to "be kind to those who have chosen different doors and to those who are still in the hall" of "Mere Christianity". Actually getting to know people from different denominations also helps mitigate denominational arrogance. Holding your theological convictions and respecting (and learning from) other Christians don't have to be mutually exclusive.
From my friendship with Presbyterians and Presbyterian clergy, I have a pretty good guess. When I was beginning to look across the Tiber I was in a doctoral program and a friend of mine, who was a Presbyterian pastor, used to go to lunch with me every Wednesday at a local Irish pub. Once we were discussing issues in the churches, and I mentioned I was beginning to notice some positive features in Catholicism. At that point he tossed his silverware down and responded 'Well I guess to hell with doctrine then!' I've found little over the years to suggest his was a rogue opinion.
DeleteAs for Orthodox, they seem to run under the old 'any enemy of Catholicism is a friend of ours' banner. That might be a bit unfair, but if it is, it's only by degree.
Well, I was being tongue-in-cheek in the first part of my comment - after all, my daughter is engaged to your Orthodox son and I know what he thinks of Calvinism! :D But we love him and I'm very thankful they read the Bible together and discuss theology whether or not they always agree. That was not the case with her previous boyfriend and it wasn't for lack of interest on her part.
DeleteI hope and have reason to believe that many if not most of the Presbyterians I know would try to dialogue more graciously than your friend. But then I have not been on your end of the conversation. I do know that growing up I got the impression that all Catholics were either nominal or cultural and didn't actually believe what the Catholic church teaches. But I have since learned otherwise through Catholic aquaintances online and in person, and have been blessed by many Catholic authors. :)
So Dave, your son is still Orthodox? How ecumenical!
DeleteOh, that Anna! Heh. It didn't click. Yes, I'd say the most vocal pushback I received on my way into the Catholic Church was from colleagues from Presbyterian or Lutheran churches, with Baptists a close second. I think that's because among Protestant denominations, Presbyterians and Lutherans focus more on the doctrinal distinctives of their denominations than others. Baptists simply have an engrained dislike for the Catholic Church, and more than one Orthodox convert we met came from Baptist roots. The point being they would convert to almost anything rather than Catholicism.. But yes, in my ministry days I had the chance to meet several Catholics of a varying degree of fealty to the Church's teachings But those who were serious about the Church were very impressive to me, and shattered many stereotypes I had grown up with.
DeleteTito, fair is fair. When we stayed with the Orthodox those years, I had one son who stayed Catholic. They seem to make sure one stays outside the fence to keep us honest!
DeleteI agree with the reassessment of Orthodox 'Not Liking' Catholics. I see this prevalent in the traditional Orthodox countries. Have you seen any of this in America?
ReplyDeleteMy experience is pretty much with Orthodox here in the States, and they definitely have that attitude. Many are former Protestant converts, some in Orthodox priesthood, and spend no small amount of time trashing the Church, America, and the West in general. That was a big bugaboo for me. It was almost passive-aggressive at times, the 'let's get along together you Western Nazi heretics.' I don't mind saying that was one of the features that began to gnaw at me. The old 'a turban rather than a miter' attitude was still alive and well in modern Orthodoxy.
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