Of course insurrection is a thing. It's a crime. An actual crime. Like robbing a bank or stealing a car. And if you commit those crimes, you're charged with, and perhaps found guilty of, committing those crimes. But you aren't a car thief because someone calls you a car thief. Or a bank robber simply because media talking points say you are. Or a racist just because someone says you're a racist. It has to be officially proven for it to stick, at least on this side of the Gulags.
With that said, it doesn't appear they have actually demonstrated that the January 6th protests and riots were an insurrection, despite media narratives to the contrary. To me, and many of those in that 'billions', it was yet another riot in a year of riots. This one directed at liberals in many ways that riots following Trump's election in 2016 were directed at conservatives.
Or just like the riots and protests of 2020 that were aimed at anything American in general, at government buildings, at Christian churches, at religious art featuring white people, or businesses and residential areas, injuring and even killing innocents*, and destroying much property. And all of that after four years of pundits, activists and even journalists declaring the 2016 election a fraud, stolen, corrupted, illegal, and in need of being overturned by hook or by crook.
But I didn't see an insurrection on January 6th, 2020, at least not yet. I'm waiting for the verdict. For I vehemently reject the modern Left's insistence that things like due process, presumption of innocence or burden of proof are antiquated ideals once used to keep the oppressed down, and therefore worthy of being overhauled or eliminated.
If it is found to be legally true, that by the law an actual insurrection did take place, and a court has ruled so, then I'll concede the possibility at least. As far as I know, however, that hasn't happened yet, at least with the riot as a whole. Much less that Donald Trump has been found legally guilty of being linked to such a crime.
*I'll assume at least some of those 25 said to have been killed during the 2020 riots were killed due to the 2020 riots. I recently had a debate with deacon and film critic Steven Greydanus who challenged that assumption, and suggested that just because they died during the riots doesn't mean they died because of the riots. If that is true for some, I have a hard time believing all of them were only coincidently killed in ways unrelated to the riots and protests in which they were killed.
You haven't entered John Zmirak territory yet, but I think your transformation into the Mark Shea of the right is complete.
ReplyDeletePlease unpack that for me. How does this post reflect anything in any manner the way Mark Shea would say it? I explain my point - I've not seen an actual court case where someone has actually been convicted of the specific crime of insurrection. I point out that the riots of Jan 6 were an extension of the 2020 protests and riots, but admit they were still protests and riots. Did I libel anyone? Did I attack anyone personally, unless pointing out what someone said is an attack? I mean, where did Mark Shea even come into this?
DeleteKing Chuck is projecting the faults of the Left onto you, where they don't belong. Standard operating procedure for these folks.
DeleteNo, there wasn't any insurrection. If you're going to have an insurrection, bring a few thousand guns and do it right. Don't just break a few windows, swipe a few souvenirs, and then stand around taking selfies. ----- G. Poulin
At least he signed his name. It's the 'Anonymous' with no name to separate the posts that makes it near impossible to discuss, and therefore more akin to a troll than a commenter. As for Charlemagne, since he didn't return to unpack his claim, I'll have to say troll as well, of the type who reacts to people he disagrees with by saying 'you're Mark Shea!' whether it's close to reality or not.
DeleteMust definitely be troll because it’s a completely laughable accusation as well as unqualifiable.
DeleteYeah. I fear he's swung by a couple times with 'you're Shea!' even if there seems to be no real basis for saying it other than 'I disagree!' That he doesn't come back and unpack his reasoning is the best evidence for 'Troll'.
DeleteAt this point, if people can't see Jan. 6th for what it was, or rather wasn't, then I have to assume complete willful blindness or lacking in good will. And what has been done to these poor people subsequently for very little compared to the Floyd ACTUAL riots is appalling, but our JD spared no expense. My friend locally had FBI guys show up on his front porch looking for information on a guy who was in a picture with him at some point. He refused to cooperate, and the guys just sighed deeply. They knew how stupid their assignment was.
ReplyDelete"At this point, if people can't see Jan. 6th for what it was, or rather wasn't, then I have to assume complete willful blindness or lacking in good will."
DeleteI'm amazed at how blaze Catholics are becoming about the glorification of treason going on in the political right these days. Between you clowns and Pope Francis, I wonder why I bother to stay in anymore
Dear Anonymous (which considering your language is interesting):
DeleteSo it's treason now? Has there been a trial? The Constitution was written at a time when some governments tried to define any complaining about their policies as "treason", "rebellion", etc. The Founding Fathers, building on a century of developments in English law, defined it and declared it a matter for the courts under due process. Sputter all you want (and you have that right), but it means nothing. You don't get to make the call. That's Dave's point. What part of due process don't you understand?
(Tom New Poster): Sorry I left my name off.
DeleteOkay, Willful blindness... check. At best Jan. 6th was a "riot", but hardly. It was more of a demonstration and protest against a perceived stealing of an election. Mark Milley should be prosecuted for treason though. That guy went absolutely rogue against his own Commander in Chief.
DeleteAnd, I'm sorry, but if you're wondering about staying in the Church because of how people see an event or Pope Francis then I invite you, sincerely, to get offline and reacquaint yourself with Jesus in the Eucharist :)
You take up arms against your country, that counts as treason in my book.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone been convicted of treason or insurrection? That's my point. I mean, how many boatloads of people have been arrested? And how many convicted of insurrection? You see, in my book, the big concern I have is a growing tendency to forgo the whole 'let's examine the evidence and put the person on trial' in preference for 'just guilty, let's move on.' Whatever may have happened on Jan 6 or in 2020 seems far less troubling than that trend.
DeleteUnfortunately for you, your book isn't the Constitution of the United States.
DeleteDirected at Anonymous. Not to you David.
DeleteSorry left my name off also(Bob)
DeleteResponding to the Anon at 11:53 --- The government of your country isn't your country. Your country is a place and the people living in it. The people who conducted the American Revolution understood this. Why do so many Americans today fail to understand this?
Delete--- G. Poulin
Because of the lack of education of American history and the hatred for this country by the left since the last 60 years.
DeleteShut it, anon. We read about what was planned in the Time's article. Here let me just quote it for those who want to play stupid:
DeleteActivists began preparing to reprise the demonstrations if Trump tried to steal the election. “Americans plan widespread protests if Trump interferes with election,” Reuters reported in October, one of many such stories. More than 150 liberal groups, from the Women’s March to the Sierra Club to Color of Change, from Democrats.com to the Democratic Socialists of America, joined the “Protect the Results” coalition. The group’s now defunct website had a map listing 400 planned postelection demonstrations, to be activated via text message as soon as Nov. 4. To stop the coup they feared, the left was ready to flood the streets.
[snip]
The conversation that followed was a difficult one, led by the activists charged with the protest strategy. “We wanted to be mindful of when was the right time to call for moving masses of people into the street,” Peoples says.
You all were ready to "commit treason" the moment Trump won so you can shut your mouth about what counts as treason. You sawed off any branch you're trying to judge from long ago.
Anonymous at 11:53.
DeleteWhere were the arms in the ‘insurrection’ you imagine took place?
You are utterly delusional.
Bob, we were following some storms last night and while bouncing around weather reports, I noticed one channel had some MASH marathon going. I haven't watched MASH for years. But I was taken by how almost each episode was a variation on 'how much does the USA suck, but how awesome is anyone else - including N. Korean and Chinese Communists!' This is a lesson that has been taught for generations.
DeleteNate, I have to chuckle in amazement. The act like nobody ever challenged an election before. Or that nobody tried to derail the Trump election. They say he's a threat to the Constitution, but who launched a vigorous campaign to toss the Electoral College just because they didn't get their way. As I've said, double standards are almost mother's milk to liberalism. The ease with which they say you're a fascist for suggesting what they're happy to do when they want. And to do it with a straight face, knowing they won't be called on it.
DeleteAnon. As a general rule I like the comments section to not get too personal. It would help and I would step in easier if you could be, well, not anonymous. Doesn't have to be a real name. Pick a favorite super hero or commercial spokesperson. Otherwise, it's tough to say much if you don't help us know and keep track of who is saying what.
ReplyDeleteWe are informed, over and over and over by our LeftProg interlocutors, that there is NO evidence of election fraud on the part of their party. I have become convinced that looking at this as a legal issue is missing the important point: We don't trust the election process.
ReplyDeleteIt is much more like a young man wooing a young lady. He has to convince her that his intentions are honorable and demonstrate by his actions that she can trust him.
So, Democrats, you need to PROVE that you can be trusted. We don't need to prove anything.
The riot aspect of January 6 was shameful, no question.
ReplyDeleteStill, it wasn't the worst direct attack on our national legislative processes by a long shot. That happened in 1954 when four terrorists opened fire on the House of Representatives while it was in session, wounding five Congressmen.
Amazingly enough, President Carter commuted all of their sentences.
When the news first broke, the conservatives I know - including Trump supporters - were outraged at what happened. But then, like the Kavanaugh mob, they saw the press act as if nobody ever questioned an election or took part in a riot before, so this is the worst threat to America since 9/11. And as usual, that naked cheating at the game caused most to circle the wagons against such shameful mendacity. Otherwise, they might have remained the riot's biggest critics.
DeleteAgain, and forever, IF you are staging an INSURRECTION, you need weapons.
ReplyDeleteWhere were the WEAPONS in the 6 January incident? Oh yes! Wielded by the minions of the state.
John Brown understood this, which is why he took the Harper's Ferry Armory. The insurrection he intended to provoke needed WEAPONS.
The LeftProgs really should just zip it and stop talking. They shame any species which claims to be sentient.
I agree except for the last sentence. I can't imagine why they would stop talking about it since, at least in their own quarters and broader media outlets, it has worked like a charm. Whether that will translate in November remains to be seen. Though I'm wondering what will happen between now and then to 2020 this election.
Delete